Tenants have to remove mats from the front of their doors!

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Permalink Reply by Cowboy on February 7, 2010 at 1:02pm

Brian that was very interesting - but I bet the EM's weren't advised because I'm sure ours would have put a notice on the board. Again lack of communication on someones part and I don't know who should be blamed. My neighbour was knocked over by that last minute closure of her door. --- Hank

brian winchcombe said:

David Alan Moore

Hi David
Steel hinges, are more resistant to higher temperatures.
Sealant, is an intumescent paste, it expands to several times their original size and fill the gap between the door and the frame door edges and so prevents penetration by smoke.

If you have a surface overhead door closer it is designed to close a door slowly but firmly against the stop, and to latch, it should have a swing speed and latching speed control and a back check adjustment.

Swing speed - adjusts how fast the front door closes.
Latching speed - adjusts how fast the front door closes for those last few inches.
Back check - adjusts amount of resistance to opening the door.

If the front door slams, it needs adjusting.
If the front door has excessive resistance to open, it needs adjusting.
If the front door does not latch, it needs adjusting.
If you have disabilities or a wheelchair user, ask to have your overhead door closer replaced with one with delayed action controls to hold the door open for a longer period.

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Permalink Reply by John E Pallister on February 7, 2010 at 5:00pm

I think you'll find they are adjusted using alan keys.
Cheers
John

david alan moore said:

HI Brian thanks for your comments on the door springs, this is not a job that elderly residents
can do themselfs, i have looked at the door spring and found it to be a sealed unit, so there
is no way to adjust the spring ourselves, other than disengaging the connecting arm that i have
done for residents who found the doors to hard to open.
David Moore.

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Permalink Reply by Drywors on February 11, 2010 at 4:04pm

Margaret, our walls betwwen next door flats are simply two layers of thin board. So any fire next door or in my kitchen would burn through the walls in sixty seconds flat. No matter, I would be safe clinging like a bat to my fire door whilst my lungs fill with toxic smoke. Nice hey.

Margaret Goodwin said:

.......and another thing: our flat entrance doors may be fire proof but it's mostly smoke that kills and there are huge gaps under and around the doors (to make sure we suffocate mercifully quickly perhaps?). We are advised to stay in our flats (on our site) but my first instinct would be to 'leg it' rather than sit, waiting to be rescued, with smoke pouring under the door and windows that only open wide enough for a cat.

Health & Safety? What a joke.

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Permalink Reply by Margaret Goodwin on February 15, 2010 at 11:25am

Ha,ha - Roy, you conjure some incredible mental images!!! I know what you mean. though, and I'm glad I live in a modern flat with block walls and concrete floors for that reason.
I was grateful to Brian for explaining some of the mysteries of draughtproofing foam and door closers but, surely, EMs should be reassuring us about these things. I am often met with a blank look when I ask what seems to me to be a reasonable question. It's not their fault, they have woefully inadequate training, in my opinion, which takes me back to my contention (months ago) that there should be a nationally recognised qualification for EMs and a proper career structure for them to progress, should they wish. - Marg

Roy Telfer said:

Margaret, our walls betwwen next door flats are simply two layers of thin board. So any fire next door or in my kitchen would burn through the walls in sixty seconds flat. No matter, I would be safe clinging like a bat to my fire door whilst my lungs fill with toxic smoke. Nice hey.

Margaret Goodwin said:

.......and another thing: our flat entrance doors may be fire proof but it's mostly smoke that kills and there are huge gaps under and around the doors (to make sure we suffocate mercifully quickly perhaps?). We are advised to stay in our flats (on our site) but my first instinct would be to 'leg it' rather than sit, waiting to be rescued, with smoke pouring under the door and windows that only open wide enough for a cat.

Health & Safety? What a joke.

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Permalink Reply by Graham Mitchell on March 16, 2010 at 1:16pm

I think that hallways should have notices at the bottom of the stairs, to warn of the danger of 'Falling Residents'. After all we're such a doddery old load of so-and-sos!

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Permalink Reply by John E Pallister on March 16, 2010 at 1:58pm

Graham,
If they were coming down our stairs that might just be the case, because at the moment there is somebody's bike handle-bars poking through the side railings. I have informed our EM and she's looking into it.

Cheers

John

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Permalink Reply by John E Pallister on March 17, 2010 at 10:25pm

Job done....bike moved away from railings.....now safe to use stairs !!

Cheers

John

John E Pallister said:

Graham,
If they were coming down our stairs that might just be the case, because at the moment there is somebody's bike handle-bars poking through the side railings. I have informed our EM and she's looking into it.

Cheers

John

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Permalink Reply by Cowboy on March 18, 2010 at 12:16am

John - You do have exciting times in your flats - you mind out they might charge you entertainment tax. --- Hank

John E Pallister said:

Job done....bike moved away from railings.....now safe to use stairs !!

Cheers

John

John E Pallister said:

Graham,
If they were coming down our stairs that might just be the case, because at the moment there is somebodies bike handle-bars poking through the side railings. I have informed our EM and she's looking into it.

Cheers

John

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Permalink Reply by Ruth Arnott on March 26, 2010 at 11:57am

Dear all,

From your postings on this topic, it became apparent that instructions to Housing Managers regarding health and safety issues are perhaps being distorted or misinterpreted. Having shared this discussion with senior managers, they have reissued advice regarding the things that Housing Managers should consider when carrying out risk assessments.

Hanover wishes to take a balanced and common sense approach to the sort of issues you have been describing. Occupied buildings cannot always be risk free; however, Hanover has a duty to ensure that obvious hazards that could cause a risk to those using and living in the building are removed from communal areas.

Risk assessments are individual to each estate and therefore we do not have blanket rules for all of the issues you have been describing.

Are doormats allowed?
We will start with the premise of ‘yes’ doormats are fine, UNLESS they pose a serious trip hazard. If you don’t like the appearance of doormats, residents can make a collective decision about whether the estate should allow them and record it in your local agreement.

Are items allowed in corridors?
Pictures, plants, and ornaments make for a positive homely environment and are fine as long as there is always a clear, safe walkway through the corridor and items cannot easily be dislodged. The risk of fire and toxic fumes from dried and plastic items should be considered proportionately, depending on the location and size of the items. Whether the display of these items are an attractive edition to the estate is again a matter for residents to decide collectively for the estate during local agreement discussions.

Should people stay put if there is a fire?
If anyone is endangered by fire or smoke, they should move away to a safer place, closing doors behind them to contain the spread of smoke and fire.

We operate a stay put unless in danger policy, rather than evacuation. However, when staying put people should be alert and prepared to move if the smoke or fire is visible or if instructed to move by a Fire officer. The fire resisting construction of buildings (compartmentation) provides protection for a time that will allow the Fire Service to deal with the fire or to decide who may need to evacuate.

What is meant by compartmentation?
All dwellings are designed so that the walls, floors, ceilings etc that divide them from other dwellings or from the common parts are fire resisting. Additionally the common parts of the buildings are sub-divided to form separate compartments that resist the spread of fire. Fire resisting doors allow movement between these compartments but should be kept closed or should automatically close on the sounding of the common fire alarm to create the separate compartments.

Because we wish to ensure that residents are not in danger when following our ‘stay put if not in danger’ strategy, we must ensure that this compartmentation is effective. As a result, extensive remedial and upgrading work has taken place to ensure that there are no breaches of the fire-separating features due to poor construction or alteration work. We also consider the effectiveness of the fire doors. This includes smoke-seals, adequate spring door closers, and a close fit between door and frame, with no more than 9mm gap at the base.

I hope this helps with clarifying some of the issues you have been discussing. Please do challenge implementation of health and safety measures if you think that a practical common sense approach is not being taken or that a risk is being ignored.

Best wishes
Ruth

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